APARTMENT
14 posts
• Page 1 of 1
APARTMENT
by GERW » Fri May 22, 2009 8:22 pm
HI WE ARE NEW TO THIS SITE ,WE BOUGHT ONE OF THE APARTMENTS AND WE AGREED TO THE NEW ANNEX WITHOUT FULLY UNDERSTANDING THATWE WERE INVALIDATING THE OLD BECAUSE WE DID NOT FULFILL THE PAYMENT SCHEDULE. THIS IS WHAT THE LEGAL FIRM TOLD US EVEN THOUGH NO NEW CONTRACT HAS AS YET BEEN AGREED SO WE ARE IN LIMBO. NO OLD GURANTEE AND NO NEW ONE. CAN ANYONE PLEASE HELP US ,WE DONT EVEN KNOW IF THE VENTURE IS A RUNNER AT THIS STAGE.????? ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW IF THE BUILDING IS GOING ON
- GERW
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:13 am
- Location: Ireland
by mcneilee » Sat May 23, 2009 1:37 pm
i'm now starting to feel a bit sick. i think GERW means an extention meaning if you do not make the original payment. You invalidate the guarantee even if you got an agreement to a new payment date.May be getting a modified contract might fix it
luv the edit button
- mcneilee
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:44 am
- Location: on a hill
APARTMENT
by GERW » Sat May 23, 2009 2:26 pm
The annexe is a new clause to be added the the original contract because the development is taking so long to progress.
I presume all of us were contacted around the October payment date and offered the choice of negociating a revised payment schedule given the delays.
We agreed to the revised schedule as we were very slow to hand over any more money as did many others involved in the scheme iI am sure.
When the new payment schedule was not forthcoming we contacted Manzanares and said that we were very unhappy with the situation and that we wabted to enact the bank guarantee in order to get our money paid to date back. We were eventuallytold that because WE had not made the October payment that we had invalidated the bank guarantee and that we would have to enter into a very costly legal process in the Moroccan coutrs to try and get the money back. For this we would need a Moroccan lawyer who would be looking for payment in advance ......
At present Manzanares are saying that we should continue with the proposed new payment schedule and conditions (which none of us has seen yet) and that we must return the original bank guarantee before they will issue a new one. Have they said this to others? Also they are looking for around 400 euros in fees for the negotiation of the new paymeny schedule.
We are not sending back the original guarantee until we get some independent legal advice on this. Manzanares are not really working for us in the true sense of representing our best interests as we feel that we were mislead into accepting the new payment schedule. they neglected to inform us that we would be invalidating the bank guarantee by accepting their proposal to adopt a new payment schedule.
Has anyone else sought any independent legal advice on this yet?
I presume all of us were contacted around the October payment date and offered the choice of negociating a revised payment schedule given the delays.
We agreed to the revised schedule as we were very slow to hand over any more money as did many others involved in the scheme iI am sure.
When the new payment schedule was not forthcoming we contacted Manzanares and said that we were very unhappy with the situation and that we wabted to enact the bank guarantee in order to get our money paid to date back. We were eventuallytold that because WE had not made the October payment that we had invalidated the bank guarantee and that we would have to enter into a very costly legal process in the Moroccan coutrs to try and get the money back. For this we would need a Moroccan lawyer who would be looking for payment in advance ......
At present Manzanares are saying that we should continue with the proposed new payment schedule and conditions (which none of us has seen yet) and that we must return the original bank guarantee before they will issue a new one. Have they said this to others? Also they are looking for around 400 euros in fees for the negotiation of the new paymeny schedule.
We are not sending back the original guarantee until we get some independent legal advice on this. Manzanares are not really working for us in the true sense of representing our best interests as we feel that we were mislead into accepting the new payment schedule. they neglected to inform us that we would be invalidating the bank guarantee by accepting their proposal to adopt a new payment schedule.
Has anyone else sought any independent legal advice on this yet?
- GERW
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:13 am
- Location: Ireland
by davmel » Sat May 23, 2009 8:09 pm
Guess quite a few of us are left in this legal limbo. Does anyone know if there is a professional body governing the behaviour of lawyers in Spain? Perhaps we could club together and screw their arse!
An alternative is we group together and negotiate separately with the builder.
An alternative is we group together and negotiate separately with the builder.
- davmel
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 am
- Location: Ireland
APARTMENT
by Anonymous » Mon May 25, 2009 3:07 pm
Hi,
when we got the letter about the Annex the new payment schedule was explained. From memory the final 10% payment was delayed from October 2008 until July 2009 with a new completion date of Dec 2009.
The Annex invalidated the Old Bank Gurantee in favour of a new one which had a later completion date. If you have not received the new bank Guarantee yet then i suggest you contact Fadesa to find out what bank the new Bank Guarantee will be held with, and then contact the bank directly to find out what the situation is.
It is your legal obligation to keep up the payment schedule so if you have accepted the Annex you should still be able to make the final payment and have your new bank guarantee intact.
If the date slips past the revised completion date then you can invoke the new Guarantee but only if payments are up to date.
Your only other recourse is to either sell (unlikely at the minute) or cancel the contract and get 75% of your deposit back. This could take a while because it has nothing to do with the bank and everything to do with Fadesa's willingness to honour their part and pay you back.
PTN
when we got the letter about the Annex the new payment schedule was explained. From memory the final 10% payment was delayed from October 2008 until July 2009 with a new completion date of Dec 2009.
The Annex invalidated the Old Bank Gurantee in favour of a new one which had a later completion date. If you have not received the new bank Guarantee yet then i suggest you contact Fadesa to find out what bank the new Bank Guarantee will be held with, and then contact the bank directly to find out what the situation is.
It is your legal obligation to keep up the payment schedule so if you have accepted the Annex you should still be able to make the final payment and have your new bank guarantee intact.
If the date slips past the revised completion date then you can invoke the new Guarantee but only if payments are up to date.
Your only other recourse is to either sell (unlikely at the minute) or cancel the contract and get 75% of your deposit back. This could take a while because it has nothing to do with the bank and everything to do with Fadesa's willingness to honour their part and pay you back.
PTN
- Anonymous
by davmel » Tue May 26, 2009 7:32 pm
PTN You mention;
What legal binding makes you believe that 75% of the deposit could be refunded by the developer?
Tks
Davmel
or cancel the contract and get 75% of your deposit back. This could take a while because it has nothing to do with the bank and everything to do with Fadesa's willingness to honour their part and pay you back.
What legal binding makes you believe that 75% of the deposit could be refunded by the developer?
Tks
Davmel
- davmel
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 am
- Location: Ireland
by GERW » Tue May 26, 2009 8:04 pm
PTN,
From what you write it would appear that you have got the new bank guarantee ... Is this the case???. The reason I ask is that it would appear that the annex has only recently been agreed according to the spanish laywers and so the ensuing new contractural dates have also been agreed just recently. we were reluctant to send back the old gurantee until at least the neogiations were somewhat finalised. When did you obtain the new gurantee???
From what you write it would appear that you have got the new bank guarantee ... Is this the case???. The reason I ask is that it would appear that the annex has only recently been agreed according to the spanish laywers and so the ensuing new contractural dates have also been agreed just recently. we were reluctant to send back the old gurantee until at least the neogiations were somewhat finalised. When did you obtain the new gurantee???
- GERW
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:13 am
- Location: Ireland
APARTMENT
by Anonymous » Tue May 26, 2009 8:54 pm
I'll answer both questions
Firstly - what legal biding makes you think the developer will pay back 75% of the deposit ?
I enquired from our Solicitor a while back about this option and was informed that at the contract could be cancelled but that Fadesa would with hold 25% of sums already paid. I got confirmation of this from Fadesa who confirmed that at the time that they were allowing contracts to be cancelled and that it was taking up to 6 months to refund. Now - don't shoot the messenger here . Your solicitor can advise on whether this is suitable recourse, gven the changes that have occurred at Fadesa.
Secondly - I don't have a new BG. I exercised the original one when i got the chance. I have been lucky enough to get fully refunded.
Here's the details from the email I got from Manzanares back in October.
As your legal representatives, we arranged an appointment in Morocco directly with the Developer with the aim of clarifying the current situation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further to the mentioned appointment, I would like to provide you with the following information:
1) We asked the Developer for information concerning the beginning of the building works and they confirmed us that they have indeed started. Given this information, we asked for photographs proving this. Please, find attached the photos received with the beginning of the building works.
2) New date for conclusion of the building works: Taking into account that the building works have started recently, we asked for information concerning the new date for conclusion as well as a calendar for the building works. Please, find attached the calendar provided.
Taking into account the confirmation of these two issues, we set a modification in the structure of the purchase consisting on:
1) New date for the payment formerly foreseen for October 31st, 2008, joining this payment to a stage in the construction which in this case is around July 2009 voiding you keep paying without the clear advance of the building works.
2) New bank guarantee: Adjusted to the new payment calendar
3) Annex to the contract where it is stated these two issues, as well as the new date for completion.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Firstly - what legal biding makes you think the developer will pay back 75% of the deposit ?
I enquired from our Solicitor a while back about this option and was informed that at the contract could be cancelled but that Fadesa would with hold 25% of sums already paid. I got confirmation of this from Fadesa who confirmed that at the time that they were allowing contracts to be cancelled and that it was taking up to 6 months to refund. Now - don't shoot the messenger here . Your solicitor can advise on whether this is suitable recourse, gven the changes that have occurred at Fadesa.
Secondly - I don't have a new BG. I exercised the original one when i got the chance. I have been lucky enough to get fully refunded.
Here's the details from the email I got from Manzanares back in October.
As your legal representatives, we arranged an appointment in Morocco directly with the Developer with the aim of clarifying the current situation.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Further to the mentioned appointment, I would like to provide you with the following information:
1) We asked the Developer for information concerning the beginning of the building works and they confirmed us that they have indeed started. Given this information, we asked for photographs proving this. Please, find attached the photos received with the beginning of the building works.
2) New date for conclusion of the building works: Taking into account that the building works have started recently, we asked for information concerning the new date for conclusion as well as a calendar for the building works. Please, find attached the calendar provided.
Taking into account the confirmation of these two issues, we set a modification in the structure of the purchase consisting on:
1) New date for the payment formerly foreseen for October 31st, 2008, joining this payment to a stage in the construction which in this case is around July 2009 voiding you keep paying without the clear advance of the building works.
2) New bank guarantee: Adjusted to the new payment calendar
3) Annex to the contract where it is stated these two issues, as well as the new date for completion.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
- Anonymous
apartment
by GERW » Tue May 26, 2009 9:12 pm
PTN,
Many thanks for your response it was very helpfull. In our case we agreed to the new annex but as yet the exact details of this have not been agreed with the developer,as a result the old gurantee in not applicable to us and the new one is not in place yet, as the new completion dates have not been agreed as far as i know.But thanks once again
Many thanks for your response it was very helpfull. In our case we agreed to the new annex but as yet the exact details of this have not been agreed with the developer,as a result the old gurantee in not applicable to us and the new one is not in place yet, as the new completion dates have not been agreed as far as i know.But thanks once again
- GERW
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Fri May 22, 2009 11:13 am
- Location: Ireland
by davmel » Thu May 28, 2009 5:41 pm
Hi,
Attached is the proposed annex to the contract that has been circulated. In essence it proposes a May delivery on AP5 but then goes on to allow the developer to deliver any time up to Nov and if something happens outside of his control then to deliver whenever.............
The quality of the new bank guarantee and the conditions attached have yet to be seen.
We on the other hand are limited to 15days notice when they decide they are ready.
No real change from Manzanares continuing to represent the developers interest. All they are doing here is building an escape route from the revised July date for the developer and terminating our current rights.
In the eyes of a court signing this would obviously overwrite our current rights/position.
Anyone got a view?
Davmel
Edit;
Sorry the document won't attach. If you send me a PM i'll send directly.
(:D
Attached is the proposed annex to the contract that has been circulated. In essence it proposes a May delivery on AP5 but then goes on to allow the developer to deliver any time up to Nov and if something happens outside of his control then to deliver whenever.............
The quality of the new bank guarantee and the conditions attached have yet to be seen.
We on the other hand are limited to 15days notice when they decide they are ready.
No real change from Manzanares continuing to represent the developers interest. All they are doing here is building an escape route from the revised July date for the developer and terminating our current rights.
In the eyes of a court signing this would obviously overwrite our current rights/position.
Anyone got a view?
Davmel
Edit;
Sorry the document won't attach. If you send me a PM i'll send directly.
(:D
- davmel
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 am
- Location: Ireland
by mcneilee » Fri May 29, 2009 9:57 am
refuse to sign till they come up with a suitable change and refuse to pay any more money. .while they can do nothing for longer. i also want my lost interest they've been sitting on.
Last edited by mcneilee on Fri Oct 07, 2011 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
luv the edit button
- mcneilee
- Posts: 168
- Joined: Tue Aug 22, 2006 11:44 am
- Location: on a hill
by davmel » Sat May 30, 2009 10:34 pm
On other sites I've been reading about a 2003 Moroccan Law;
[/quote]
The new law applies whenever a developer is selling you property before it is delivered to you, where there is a timeframe laid down for the construction & delivery & where a buyer undertakes to pay the purchase price in instalments as the work progresses. It is a good law, based on the French & Spanish models. Unfortunately, most developers are simply ignoring it!
The law limits what the developers can do..for example:
They MUST give you certain documents. A specification, details of the planning consent, a proper written contract, etc.
They MUST get you to sign a contract prepared by a Moroccan notary & in the presence of the Notary.
They CANNOT take any money from you until the foundations have been laid.
They MUST give you a bank guarantee or similar to safeguard you in case the project is not completed.
All good stuff & designed to protect you from the sort of scandal that has engulfed the property market in Spain.
The law is quite clear in saying that if you enter into a contract that does not comply with these conditions, IT IS VOID.
Many clients are buying from developers who do not comply. You have to weigh up the dangers & go into it with your eyes open. Remember, that it is possible to buy property from a developer who DOES comply with the law!
[/quote]
As most of us paid over before the foundations were laid I wonder would we be disimproving our legal position by signing the annex??
Davmel
[/quote]
The new law applies whenever a developer is selling you property before it is delivered to you, where there is a timeframe laid down for the construction & delivery & where a buyer undertakes to pay the purchase price in instalments as the work progresses. It is a good law, based on the French & Spanish models. Unfortunately, most developers are simply ignoring it!
The law limits what the developers can do..for example:
They MUST give you certain documents. A specification, details of the planning consent, a proper written contract, etc.
They MUST get you to sign a contract prepared by a Moroccan notary & in the presence of the Notary.
They CANNOT take any money from you until the foundations have been laid.
They MUST give you a bank guarantee or similar to safeguard you in case the project is not completed.
All good stuff & designed to protect you from the sort of scandal that has engulfed the property market in Spain.
The law is quite clear in saying that if you enter into a contract that does not comply with these conditions, IT IS VOID.
Many clients are buying from developers who do not comply. You have to weigh up the dangers & go into it with your eyes open. Remember, that it is possible to buy property from a developer who DOES comply with the law!
[/quote]
As most of us paid over before the foundations were laid I wonder would we be disimproving our legal position by signing the annex??
Davmel
- davmel
- Posts: 72
- Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 8:50 am
- Location: Ireland
14 posts
• Page 1 of 1
Return to Talk About Alcudia Smir
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests
-
- Advertisement