September Payment

[billy]

Hello all,
I have, like nearly everyone else here, purchased an apartment in Alcudia Smir(AP5). I bought it through Larionovo in Ireland and Manazares are the legal firm dealing with the sale. When news of the trouble with Fedeasa broke i contacted Larionovo who were helpful to a point, they wouldn't comment on what was goig to happen and said that they were only dealing with my query as a "courtesy" i think was how the girl put it!
I then contacted Fedeasa in Dublin and was told that the Morrocan wing was split between fadeasa and a Moroccan company Adoha. They said that the moroccan wing was a seperate company and that it was not in administration.
I then rang the solicitors and they told me that they were going to get an update from their office in Tangier.
That was over 3 weeks ago and I have heard nothing since.....

Questions...
1: There is a payment due in September (i think). Bearing in mind that no work has started on AP5 and i have heard nothing from the solicitors I am thinking of holding off on paying...opinions?

2: The bank guarentees we have are only good for 2 years.... what then?

3: Is there any way out now ie get back whats paid??

[jimbo]

HI BILLY WAS ONTO FADESA TODAY REGARDING THE BANK GUARANTEE IT IS GOOD UP TO DATE STATED IF PROPERTY IS NOT COMPLETED AT THAT STAGE THE BANK RE-ISSUE ANOTHER GUARANTEE UNTIL PROPERTY IS COMPLETE AND YOU PAY FINAL PAYMENT AND GET KEYS ALSO NEARER THE TIME IT WILL BE UP TO YOU IF YOU WANT TO MAKE A FURTHER PAYMENT THEY ARE SUGGESTING WE WAIT UNTIL FOUNDATIONS ARE LAYED HOPE THIS IS HELPFUL.

[riaz]

i don't think anyone should continue to make payments.

[in vest er]

Hello, reality check folks. Riaz is 100% correct. How much further trust are you going to put in assurances from a failed developer? Get yourself an independent solicitor (if you havnt already) and then follow their advice. In property development if it all sounds too good it is probably very bad.
My only interest in this is that I signed up for an apartment in the early days and then decided to pull out when they started messing with the plans but I have watched the story unfold since. Good luck to all those still on-board.

[Anonymous]

I also bought through Larionovo who offered a 20 + 10 + 70 % payment schedule.

As time unfolded Fadesa are demanding a 20 + 10 +10 +60 payment schedule.

We had this sorted out with Fadesa who verbally agreed through our solicitor to honour the original payment schedule set out by Larionovo. However as soon as the project got delayed they started demanding the additiona 10 % payment.

Has anyone else encountered this ?

In my opinion Larionovo have been more than useless.

I certainly won't be putting any money into this shambles.

Anyone know if the bank guarantee can be actioned based upon the delays in completion ?

[billy]

I take it you value your hard earned cash so don't just grin and bear it because THEY ARE TAKING YOU FOR A RIDE.

Hello Pepe,

Can you back up your statement here?
Is there not a development being built at all?
Has there been no work done?

We know that Fedeasa Maroc are linked to Fadeasa Martinez, we also know that Fedeasa Maroc are in partnership with Adoha. They are developing 3 sites at the moment i believe and the one at Saida is nearly finished...a lot of doom and gloom being peddled here. Maybe i am being naive but i haven't totally given up....

[Pepe Le Pew]

I take it you value your hard earned cash so don't just grin and bear it because THEY ARE TAKING YOU FOR A RIDE.

Hello Pepe,

Can you back up your statement here?
Is there not a development being built at all?
Has there been no work done?

We know that Fedeasa Maroc are linked to Fadeasa Martinez, we also know that Fedeasa Maroc are in partnership with Adoha. They are developing 3 sites at the moment i believe and the one at Saida is nearly finished...a lot of doom and gloom being peddled here. Maybe i am being naive but i haven't totally given up....

Good on you Billie, we must never give up.

I live here and I deal with this lot on a daily basis on behalf of my clients, it's my job (unfourtunately).

Now what have we here?

Addoha: Reasonably steady Moroccan Construction Company linked to the Royal Family with a lot of goodwill. They want to get things moving... PROBLEM: No capability in their wildest wishes to do one tenth of even starting to sort things out. At loggerheads with Fadesa.

Fadesa Maroc: The Mr Bean of construction companies, separate company, yes, but fully dependent on the Martinsa Fadesa circus. No money to pay for toilet paper.

Addoha & Fadesa will not move a muscle until Fadesa comes up with the (cash) goods. IMPOSSIBLE.

Martinsa Fadesa: The Spanish company that cannot organise a piss up in a brewery specially since Martin took over. Insiders know that they are into administration but in reality they are bankrupt (news any day now).

Fadesa UK & Fadesa Ireland: Arrogant Mickey Mouses who can´t tell their right hand from their left. No time should be wasted with them.

Agents: Linked to Fadesa UK or Fadesa Ireland, got their dosh and forgot about it. The agent will refer you to UK or Ireland and at least in the former case they will not know nor care. OK, they may care a little bit but they will certainly not know. You are on you own Dear Client.

WHATEVER YOU DO CHECK YOUR BANK GUARANTESS. HAVE THEY BEEN REGISTERED? IF YOUR DEVELOPMENT HAS NO OFFICIAL PLANNING PERMISSION YOU ARE OUT IN THE COLD THE SAME IF THEY HAVE NOT BEEN REGISTERED. FADESA HAS NEVER KNOW NEVER CARED. YOU HAVE BEEN LED TO BELIEVE A WORLD OF MAGIG BY YOUR UK OR IRELAND LINKED AGENT AND ALL AND SUNDRY ARE LAUGHING ALL THE WAY TO THE BANK LEAVING YOU LOOKING STUPID.

If you appoint a lawyer DON'T do it through your agent and certainly not through Fadesa or anything that smells of it. That's unless you want to be taken for a bonus ride.

Shak was right all along.

Pepe

[billy]

Is there not a development being built at all?
Has there been no work done?
You have not answered these questions....

I live here and I deal with this lot on a daily basis on behalf of my clients, it's my job (unfourtunately).
If this is the case why do you ask about planning and land registry?? surely you should know??

Insiders know that they are into administration but in reality they are bankrupt (news any day now).
EVERYONE knows that they are in administration!! Have you definitive proof that they are bankrupt.. fairly loose statement!

If you appoint a lawyer DON'T do it through your agent and certainly not through Fadesa or anything that smells of it. That's unless you want to be taken for a bonus ride.
Are you suggesting Manazares are not a competent firm of lawyers??
Again a fairly loose statement!

[in vest er]

Billy, it's not about competance its about independence. Manzanares are not totally independent in this since they were the recommended lawyers of Larionovo, one of the big agents. Go to someone completely independent, it will cost some additional money upfront but will give you the answers you are seeking. Good luck

[Pepe Le Pew]

OK Billy, let me be more precise:

Firstly Fadesa's modus operandi in Morocco has been the development of huge macro resorts with each piece of land subdivided into smaller plots dedicated for different uses, residential, touristic, hotel, commercial, etc. Within each category there were a good number of plots each "strategically" placed throughout the complex. For example, residential plots are called AP's... AP1, 2, 3, etc.

Having explained the mix let's explain the method: To build the whole thing in one go would have been impossible so Fadesa built here and there in a logical exercise of dividing labour, for example they would have a go at two residential, one tourist, one hotel... a manegeable scale.

So far so good. The problem was that Fadesa had the habit of building and selling without planning permission as they have done elsewhere and when the going was good this was usually overlooked, specially over in Spain, getting the paperwork in order just prior for their clients completion.

In Morocco they have overstayed their welcome by irritating the authorities from day one. Why do you think that made Fadesa reduce the desity of the complex in mid flight? Why didn't people get a signed floor plan and spec list with their private contracts? No prizes for gessing there was no planning permission.

In fact in Alkudia Smir when the authorities made Fadesa change the plans because of lack of planning permission they simply gave them guidelines as to the overall general ordenace plan which doesn't mean to say they will get PP, they will have to go through all the quality control filters as everybody else.

I will finish this off in another post. bear with me.

Pepe.

[Pepe Le Pew]

Now Billy what was the other point in your list, oh yes, planning and land registry...

Planning we have discussed so it's land regsitry.

As I speak Addoha are somehow blocking the book segregation and individual registration of each designated plot. Big mess with Fadesa, almost war. This means that clients cannot complete for the time being.

In fairness before Addoha came to the scene and shortly after that (the honeymoon) some of the first plots to be sold in Saïdia (2004) can be completed upon but many clients are not doing so because of the snagging or lack of it.

Building: Three scenarios:

Fisnished AP: One of the following... Clients due to complete but very slow due to snagging, in some cases mortgages (Banks are not happy) or simply empty because the paperwork is not in order with the local authority.

Half Finished AP: Token workforce or abandoned.

Not started AP: Very unlikely to commence buiding.

Fadesa Administration: The value of Fadesa's assets have gone drastically down since the last audit which in any case were overvalued. It's a matter of how much longer they can keeep up this situation as the sales are not coming through and clients are generally not completing. IF clients kept up their payments as it is recommended the situation would be better for Fadesa but people are afraid not helped by the dodgy workmanship on their apartaments.

On a Personal note: Having given you the facts, I would recommend that YOU KEEP PAYING YOUR INSTALLMENTS AS USUAL because if you don't your case can get complicated if a refund is settled in court.

Iam NOT SAYING that Mazanares are not competent what I am asking you is whether you would hire an attorney who's related to your opponents family or circle of friends. As you know Larionovo and Manzanares walk hand in hand. It's common sense, that's all.

I hope my statements have unlosened.

Kind Regards

Pepe

[Pepe Le Pew]

Plaese note that in my above posts I am referring exclusively to Fadesa's own developments not of those of other developers.

Pepe.

[VAF]

Pepe are you an ex FADESA employe ?
Did you had trouble with FADESA ?

Regards

[shak]

Pepe posted

" Next year when you've lost your money and your property at least have the decency to come to the limelight of the forum and recognise it."

You are pushing your luck. I had warned the buyers at the time. The amount of abuse that I took was as if I was having any direct or indirect benefit from people buying or not buying.

While it gives me no pleasure to see people in the situation that they find themselves. There is no acknowledgement from those people. It just confirms my views that those were agents who were looking after their commission and nothing else.

[billy]

Carry on being naive, little boys and girls.

Next next year when you've lost your money and your property at least have the decency to come to the limelight of the forum and recognise it.
Pepe there is no need in my opinion for statements such as this...a condescending attitude will win you no admirers here!

Whether, one is an ex employee, axe to grind or not, is irrelevant to the buyers.
Shak how can you say this has no relevance...and then turn around and scold people for using lawyers reccommended by agents?? If there is a link there is a link!! And it does have relevance!!!

I for one am looking for information on this situation that I find myself in, I am being told that work is continuing on the development. Of course there is some uncertainty due to the issue with Fadeasa Martinez... i would hope that if Fadesa Maroc do go under that Adoha will take over Residence Du Soleil (this is who the contracts are with!) and finish the development. It is supposed to be over 90% sold so it would make sense to finish it surely....There are contracts, bank guarentees in place after all!